Papps Noble Gas engine – a ZPE theory

Sun, 27 Mar 2011 07:04:36 -0700

"The Mystery and Legacy of Joseph Papp's Noble Gas Engine"  by Eugene F.
Mallove and an
April 2 article by Sterling D. Allan, with Hank Mills on the current
status titled Noble Gas Engine Ready for Production Investment are both similar
to the ZPE reaction that I am proposing.
The papp engine utilized a combustion chamber but not combustion to power his
engine.His engine instead generates plasma during the combustion phase to drive
the piston back up and cool the gases. there is no exhaust or fuel consumed -
the gas mixture is hermetically sealed in the chambers and oscillates between
expanded and contracted statesthrough an exotic configuration of Casimir
supression and gas law where ZPE repeatedly disassociates gas molecules to
 form plasma and heat the compressed gas.

I had previously assumed that noble gases would ONLY act as insulators helping to isolate conductive/catalytic pockets of gas geometrym inside a combustion chamber similar to the way Haisch and Moddel’s prototype has insulating layers between the active Casimir/catalytic layers to force the migrating gases to translate through a wide range of vacuum energy density (what Mills calls hydrino states but others refer to as “fractional or relativistic orbital states) – Haisch and Moddel concentrated on the Lamb pinch with unheated noble gas while I suggest their environment could be utilized to force catalytic disassociation of diatomic gases like hydrogen. My premise being that any molecular gas opposes the translation to different vacuum energy densities while atomic gas translates freely creating an asymmetrical path. This concept would go unnoticed and unexploited on the macro scale since such changes only occur on a large scale as the result of a gravitational gradient where energy density increases as you travel deeper into a gravity well. At the nano scale however you have a break in this isotropy due to suppression induced by Casimir geometry. It is my position that change in this Casimir geometry is responsible for catalytic action. Unlike the increased energy density due to a gravity well we see decreased energy density due to suppression and it occurs abruptly at the plates/ walls of a Casimir cavity. These walls can take the form of a compressed meniscus in a liquid medium and should have a gaseous equivalent when different gases of different bonding affinities are rapidly mixed in a COMBUSTION chamber. After reading the article above it is clear there was no combustion occurring in the Papp engine as there was no exhaust. I humbly suggest this was an endless ZPE reaction that catalytically disassociated noble gas compounds – Wikipedia does list a limited number of chemical compounds that noble gases can form so it could act as both monatomic insulator and reactant compound. Once disassociated the atomic gases translate freely to the current vacuum energy density and are then free to reform their chemical compounds at the local energy density and release energy as they reform compounds and fall to the lower energy state. The catalytic disassociation replenishes the atomic energy state each time courtesy of ZPE. The heat released by this process would be self limiting since it pushes the piston back up to both cool the plasma and release the pressure causing these bubble like pockets of Casimir geometry. I think the spark mechanism may have been more to keep the mechanical timing and crank direction under control or you would get frequent reversals and possible explosions and so you would want to run it just below threshold and use the spark to delay the reaction past top dead center – I think a multiple cylinder engine would have been much safer. RegardsFran

On Sat, 26 Mar 2011 15:44 Robin wrote 

Don't forget that there is likely to be a fair bit of free Hydrogen in a

normal IC engine running on gasoline, which after all is a "Hydro"-carbon.

So if H is anywhere near a reasonable catalyst, then we are likely already

seeing Hydrino energy in normal combustion engines.  

also Note that several noble gasses (He, Ar, Ne, perhaps Xe) also act
as Mills catalysts.
reply to Robin

Yes hydrino combustion probably is occurring inside a normal ICE to a
limited degree
but I am still convinced that oxygen is the bane of this reaction.
Combustion is a one
way reaction that removes the hydrogen. If the plasma can be oxygen starved
the fractional/ hydrino
states can Continue to expand over a wider range. I think a diesel like
heater in the ICE could
bring a noncombustible mix of hydrogen and other gases up close to the
threshold of a runaway ZPE reaction and then the piston stroke would act
like the PWM in the Rossi device to compress the plasma over the threshold
in one direction then reverses to expand and cool the plasma back under the
threshold. My posit of an endless ashless reaction is based on a super
catalytic disassociation where nano geometry pockets of catalyst gas oppose
and disassociate molecular hydrogen or hydrinos - I don't think the
fractional states would be as acute as in a solid skeletal cat or nano
powders but there is no danger of damaging the geometry since they are
constantly reforming in a gas medium similar to bubbles in the liquid medium
of bubble fusion. IMHO the dihydrinos would disassociate/reform multiple
times giving off heat every time they reform to heat the gas and push the
piston back up.


RE: [Vo]:Papp engine

Jones Beene Mon, 28 Mar 2011 09:10:16 -0700

From: Fran Roarty 

[snip]“The Mystery and Legacy of Joseph Papp's Noble Gas Engine”
by Eugene F. Mallove
is a similar ZPE reaction to the one I am proposing.[/snip]
Since you mention this, Fran, let me add another thought - in which the
role of xenon oxide should be mentioned along with the Casimir repulsive
force. Gene’s fine article was a classic, yet it did not revive interest
in this engine among top level researchers - other than the four
different groups of people who had been associated with Papp, and who
had seen the engine working. Millions were spent by them but with no
reliable proof that the effect has been replicated. No theoretician
seems to have been able to find any conceivable way that it
could have worked.

All of the experts were probably hindered by one primary expectation.
 Since it was based on a converted piston engine, it had to be a heat
engine. Probably wrong! If today’s speculation is correct, then Papp’s
crazy design is not and never was a heat-engine, and in fact he may
have inadvertently found that ZPE can operate best as a heat sink.
Admittedly several other explanations for Papp have seemed partly
accurate in past analyses, but they assume that hydrogen was present,
 and there is no indication of that. Oxygen would be easier to imagine
as a contaminant, if it were not intentionally added. It is possible
that today’s proposed mechanism can operate best when physical
nano-cavities are present, but a gas plasma is also functional - since
so called “Casimir cooling” occurs in a medium via a Casimir repulsive
force, operating on curved surfaces where an inert molecule
like xenon might qualify as the active sphere for the cooling effect. 

We know for sure that xenon was one of Papp’s active gases, and that
xenon is known to have both chemical and nuclear metastability. I am
assuming, as Mallove did (and as the record shows), that Papp’s engine
 was demonstrated successfully on several occasions. I think we can
even identify the molecule that caused the Feynman-instigated explosion
 at the infamous demo – the one that cost Caltech a handsome sum and
cost one bystander his life… did we need to add a little extra drama
to this story?

Specifically, xenon tetroxide is a chemical compound of xenon and
oxygen: XeO4. It is remarkable for being a stable compound below −36 °C;
 but above that temperature it becomes violently explosive. This
combination of properties is what you want for use as a ZPE or ZPED
“cold pump” since you can possibly get anomalous shock waves by
capitalizing on the “cold side”, and at low effective
temperature (due to Boyles law). You can call it “reusable TNT” but it is
another version of the “entropic explosion” (shock wave without heat)
which has been referred to here before. It would be an ideal way to
 “pump” ZPE.[email protected]/msg15977.html

How to cycle between temperature extremes then becomes the overriding issue
with a piston engine. Fortunately every piston engine is also a vacuum pump in
disguise. You may need extra cooling of the cylinder head to keep it at ambient
or below and the engine will run cold naturally. There is a partial vacuum fill
of gases, and a high compression ratio to invoked the heat-pump effect and then
Joule-Thomson takes care of the rest. At bottom dead center of the stroke you
have a cold plasma from a shock wave which has dissipated without a heat

The electron configuration of xenon in its metastable chemical state consists
of tightly bound core electrons with a missing electron in the 5P shell, and a
loosely bound valence electron in the 6S shell. Thus it will lase under proper
conditions. It is tempting to attempt to connect orbital photon pumping
(lasing) with ZPE pumping – and in a few elements this could happen, but I can
find no authoritative source for that proposition.

Additionally it can be noted that the “xenon excimer laser” typically uses a
combination of a noble gases with a reactive oxidant like fluorine. Under the
appropriate conditions, a “pseudo-molecule” called an “excimer” is created,
which can only exist in an energized state and produces coherent light in the
ultraviolet range on collapse. Normally this is conservative and lossy but this
is only a metaphor for an inverse process. In the Papp engine, even if xenon
does not oxidize all the way to the tetroxide, it could easily form an excimer
when rapidly cooled from a previous shock wave.

The employment of oxygen instead of fluorine can make something happen under
extremely cold transitory conditions, as with Joule-Thomson expansion
(throttling) in a cold plasma. A design which provides mechanical torque can
depend on a shock wave in the absence of temperature differential, due to this
little known property (little known, unless you design automotive air-bags or
read vortex). This mechanism is known as the “entropic explosion” – or heatless
shock wave. Essentially, this converts “coldness” into torque, and then into
usable energy, in a proper design. :-)

With a high compression ratio, it could be possible to cycle a low pressure gas
fill between ambient and minus 36 °C, on every single revolution of the engine
- so long as an adiabatic process is avoided.  But by permitting Boyle’s Law to
operate using a mix of gases with one of them being helium, thermodynamic
expectations become altered, and so my suggestion today is that this is the way
Papp avoided the adiabatic process. 

These thermodynamics, if this speculation is accurate, would have been
completely unknown to Papp, and maybe to Feynman, but the engine worked (at
least it worked on occasion when curious onlookers from Caltech were not
tempted to unplug the temperature control unit). Aside from that, relevant
details are still unknown and that probably goes back to the fact that Papp,
like Andrea Rossi, could have gotten lucky in the lab and not had a clue about
what they had found, due to paranoia at having the invention stolen. 

BTW I’m referring to the strange “inversion temperature” of helium once again
in the above scenario, since of all exploitable physical properties, it seems
to be the one which can be tied directly to the zero point field.

Think about an ‘alternative universe’ in which the great Feynman really was
great (instead of above-average) and in which there was no OPEC, no Gulf Wars
and no trillion dollar deficits, due to the discovery 40 years ago - of a brand
new energy source. IOW a real genius was present at this demo who was able to
override natural skepticism and figure this one out from the start.

Ironically, the rights to the Papp engine could probably have been purchased by
Caltech for less than had to pay for the fatality. 


6 thoughts on “Papps Noble Gas engine – a ZPE theory”

  1. I respect Mr Froarty, but it is important to follow the new paradigm in “free energy:” by pass theory and go right to engineering. As Rossi said in his news conference: ‘The time for talk has ended – nobody is going to believe you unless you prove it to them.’

    Rossi has formed an American company Leonardo, and is currently mass producing his units in America to be shipped to Greece for a 1MW power plant opening before the end of the year. It is the first clean cheap abundant, and eventually portable, power production technology to imminently emerge on the market.

  2. Hello
    My name is John Rohner and my company is ( I am the author of the current patent pending on this technology and have running test engines using it. I was also the electronic designer of the controller that was used on the “certified” 83 engine.
    I find your comments very interesting. You have one part particularly right. The fuel mix does have one gas that is pure buffer, a second that is quasi passive as a second buffer. The rest are used much as you envision except each has a higher transition point so one sets the next which sets the last off.
    Much as you consider with the heat, the gas mix also is “pre conditioned” before the catalyst, a 200KV lightning ball about .1 diameter, is applied. The equivalent to your heat is the application of Electromagnetic squeeze and Radio frequency energies to Ionize the gas mixture to just under the transition point. This lowers the reactive point and simplifies the starting. From there the expansion of the plasma has a five to one expansion rate, mix dependent. Removal of the catalyst and RF will cause the transition to stop, and as you assume the return to steady state gas does cause a partial vacuum and a negative thermal impulse.
    I am unfamiliar with ZPE or Rossi. But if this process specifies Hydrogen then it is wrong. Hydrogen has a reaction time that is too fast for a small displacement system.
    For a very large displacement a small hydrogen part may be helpful to start the process as more volume is required in less time.
    In our tests we have found it too quick and dissipates before it can “light the candle”
    thus we use the slower Helium.
    I hope you do not mind my checking in and commenting as this is definitely THE best hope for future clean air power generation and we have just scratched the surface. It is my thought that there is still a world to learn about this.
    Thank You

    • Hi John,
      I only discovered your work after the fact when I updated my blog to include any current progress in the field. Thank you for the comments and I hope you don’t mind a few suggestions regarding your patent issues. I wrote a previous blog regarding why the patent office approved the Haisch-Moddel application based on Casimir effect but denied Mills application which was based on catalytic action.
      You should also read my proposal that catalytic action is based on Casimir effect – a relativistic interprtation based on a paper by Jan Naudts which proposed hydrinos / fractional orbits below ground state are a relativistic effect. .
      My feeling is that your patent if translated similar to Haisch and Moddel and based on Casimir effect will be acceptable to the patent office but any mention of catalytic action is considered perpetual motion- Some day in the future the relationship between Csimir effect and catalytic action will be established and Mill’s will have a field day suing the patent office for treating it different than Casimir effect but that will be long after big industry has already divided up this pie.
      My mention of hydrogen is not an ICE implimentation, Mills and Rossi also create a compressed environment that creates plasma but using solid catalysts of Casimir geometry to supress
      the wavelengths of virtual particles changing the energy density of space time similat to a gravity well but negative and abrupt where time is accelerated instead of decelerated from our relative perspective. My bet is that if you could see the spectrum of your gases inside the chamber they would be shifted similar to the odd purple plasma Mill’s creates with his hydrino.

  3. Does the engine also create small gravitational fluctuations? Since the plasma and the gases used are very similar to the keshe reactor ( . And there units seem to create gravitational and magnetic fields. And they also seem to be able to maintain the plasma. But they are not as open about the tech as you guys seem to be, cool.

    • My theories are not the basis of any hardware design and it remains to be proven if they are even correct but yes my Relativistic interpretation of Casimir effect means you have segregated zones with different equivalent inertial planes.. aka gravity wells and gravity warps [hills] or supression and concentration of what Hal Puthoff refers to as vacuum pressure.
      the gas layers form and reform Casimir geometry that excites the gas caught in the Casimir cavities into temporal displacement – the ether is supressed and C^2 is varried instead of V^@ but with very similar results to sitting in a gravity well only the concentrated effect in the cavities is just the opposit [supression] and instead of slowing time by increasing the rate of virtual particles passing through our 3D plane we have supression that delays the number of virtual particles growing into the present from the future and then shrinking into the past. These virtual particle form the basis of HUP that give us random gas motion even at absolute zero temp but normally unexploitable because their trajectory is perpindicular to all 3 spatial axii on the time axis -a Casimir cavity provides confinement of 1 spatial axis and forces a limited displacement of atoms back and forth on the temporal axis that we perceive as catalytic action. All these claims of anomalous action are just our growing awareness of the true nature of catalytic action as we progress to the next level of super catalysts – the anomally has been there for a really long time but so small it was previously dismissed – that isin the processs of changing :_)

    • good question, I think gravity is segregated into equal and opposite Nano regions that opposes motion of the macro object in which Casimir cavities and hydrogen gas are contained such that an active lenr reactor on a beam balance would react more slowly to weights added to the counter balance side than an unpowered inactive reactor. battery powered and everything in a faraday cage on balance. IMHO THIS relateas lenr to the EM drive, the reactor being passive has no directional bias as regions segregation cancels but EM drive uses rf energy intentioally unbalanced by geometry effects on standing waves in a resonating waveguide.both candidates for what Pithoff coins vacuum engineering.

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